“发明”这个词在中国另有含义 [美国媒体]

Talldarkn67 於 8小時前 發表
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed people in China claiming to "invent" AI bike sharing mobile payments vaporizers etc. etc. ? How can you claim to invent something that was around long before it came to China? Yet if you point this out to someone in China they just accuse you of being a victim of "western propaganda". Am I really a victim of propaganda? Are there actually Chinese inventions that were made after 1950 that I'm not aware of?

只有我还是你们也有人注意到，中国人声称他们“发明”了人工智能、共享单车、手机移动支付和雾化烟等东西？你怎么能声称某样早在传到中国之前就已经存在的事物是中国发明的呢？然而，当你跟某中国人提出这点疑问时，他们就会指责你说你会这么想是因为你遭受了“西方宣传”的洗脑。我真的是西方宣传的受害者吗？1950年后的发明中，有哪些是我所不知的但真的是中国发明的事物吗？

评论翻译


–]xiefeilaga 8 指標 6小時前
So there actually is a concerted effort by the propaganda folks to push the idea of the new "four great Chinese inventions." I can't remember exactly what they are but they include high speed rail bike sharing and probably something about WeChat.

实际上媒体在有意地宣传“新中国四大发明”这个概念。我不太记得是哪四大发明，但是应该包括高铁、共享单车以及什么跟微信有关的事物。

It's more along the lines of "look how good China is doing under the party" "see we're actually innovative" and "here are a bunch of convoluted interviews about how the world admires us."
There are arguments to be made that things like high speed rail and bike sharing really found their groove in China and finally found enough application and scale to bloom as technologies/business models. I've heard conflicting things about vaporizers. It's definitely not on the list but one of the first major manufacturers was definitely Chinese (I'm talking e-cig vaporizers not the weed ones which go back a few decades). Mobile payments are definitely bigger in China than anywhere else but paypal has been around since the 90s.

它的潜台词就是“在党的领导下中国有多么出色“、”瞧瞧看，中国实际上是有创新的”还有“ 全世界都怀着复杂艳羡的目光注视着我们中国”。目前仍有争论，像高铁以及共享单车这些新兴事物，在中国是否有发展前景，能否在中国将范围扩大到成为技术和商业上的成功模本。我还听到过很多关于雾化烟的不同讲法。它不在四大发明清单上，但是雾化烟的最大制造商之一确实是来自中国。（我讲的是雾化电子烟，不是几十年前烧烟草的那种）。中国的移动支付规模也确实比其他国家大很多，但是paypal这种支付手段其他国家在90年代就有了。

Anyway probably best to just step out of the way if the people around you can't deal with a bit of nuance.

不管怎么样，如果你周边的人不能理解这些细微差异，别跟他们陷入争辩就是了。

[–]stealmyrecords 8 指標 6小時前
High-speed rail bike-sharing mobile payment and e-commerce. We've discussed these pretty extensively in my office - we've ran articles where we flat-out state that they aren't "inventions" in the technical sense. I've convinced the editorial staff to use "innovations" instead of "inventions" for the most part. We focus on the fact that China has adopted or improved some of these technologies more quickly and/or widely than other countries which is true.

高铁、共享单车、移动支付和电子商务。我们最近在办公室经常谈这些——我们撰写了一些文章，直言这些事物在技术层面上都不能被称为“发明”。我已经说服了编辑在文章里用“创新”这个词替代“发明”。 我们关注的是，中国比其他国家更快并更广泛地应用并改良了部分科学技术，而这确实是事实。

But then the folks I work with can handle nuanced discussion as you mentioned. I'd probably never talk about any of this stuff with your average Zhou.

但是，和我一起工作的中国同伴们却能接受那些你提及到的细微差异。我大概永远不会随便和某个中国人谈论此事。

[–]lammatthew725Hong Kong 2 指標 7小時前
invention with chinese characteristic.

带有中国特色的发明。

[–]fungal_misdirection 3 指標 4小時前
I always hear "innovate" as opposed to "invent".

我总是听到“创新”而并非“发明”。

[–]ivancurtis 2 指標 3小時前
Me too. I was reading a blurb in English about an event at a Chinese elementary school called the Design an Innovation!

我也是。我当时在读一篇用英文写的宣传资料，资料讲的是在中国初中学校开展的一个叫”设计创新“的活动！

The words innovation and innovate were used so many times in it I had to read it a few times to realize it really seemed to mean invention... But the subtle difference could have been intentional. I didn't go to the event.

资料里面大量使用了”创新“这个词，我读了好几遍才弄明白，文章实际上是想表达”发明“....但是用词上的细微差异可能是有意而为之的。我没有参加这项活动。

-------------译者：微shine-审核者：roroho------------

[–]iwazaruu 20 指標 6小時前
You have been here for 10+ years
You are married
You have a goddamned mixed blood child
And yet you still want to start shit with local Chinese who have fuckall to do with whatever inventions happen
Keep on fighting the good fight.

你已经在这儿呆了十年以上。你都结婚了。你还生了个该死的混血儿。然而你还想着和当地的中国人讨论到底tmd是谁发明的那些玩意儿。我只能说，不要停止抗争，请继续。

[–]Talldarkn67[S] 5 指標 6小時前
Is it wrong to try and help people see the truth? I'm not fighting anyone. I'm trying to inform them. Wouldn't you tell a friend if they are walking around with something in their teeth? Or would you let them continue to think they look fine? If I thought something was true that wasn't I would hope one of my friends would help me by telling me I was wrong. How is trying to share truth with people considered a "fight"?

帮助人们看清真相难道有错吗？我没有和任何人作对。我只是在尝试告诉他们（真相）。难道你朋友牙缝里有菜叶你还不会提醒他吗？难道你还想着让他们就这样自我感觉良好算了？如果我认知的某件事是错的，我也希望我的朋友能告诉我真相。传播真相怎么能认为是“作对”呢？

[–]iwazaruu 14 指標 6小時前
because you are one of those assholes who can't see what's wrong with 'just telling it like it is'.
imagine this.

因为你是那种会说“事情就是这样”，完全不明白这么说有什么不对的混蛋。试想一下吧。

you're still in america a new chinese guy* is hired and works with you.
all he fucking talks about is the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. and NSA. and Internet Neutrality. and Trump. and every other goddamn thing that's shit about America.
How do you respond?
Say whatever you want

你仍在美国，一个中国人被招来和你一起工作，他和你聊的全tmd的是阿富汗和伊拉克战争、国家安全局、网络中立、特朗普和所有与美国有关的的艹蛋玩意儿。
（译者注：Internet Neutrality——根据美国联邦通讯委员会(FCC)为维护所谓网络中立而提出的提案，美国电话公司可能被迫向Skype和 谷歌语音(Google Voice)等网络服务竞争对手开放无线网络）
这时你能怎么办？
你想说什么就说什么。

The answer is "Jesus christ this guy is annoying as fuck. Swear to god I'm just gonna start nodding and humming next time he talks to me about what I can do to end the war in Afghanistan."

答案就是，“妈蛋这人真jb惹人厌，我发誓，下次聊天，在他问起怎么终结阿富汗战争的时候我只要点头附和就好了。”

Get some self-awareness OP. That's the best advice I can give you. It is honestly embarrassing you still don't know how to act with people after living here so long.
*= how about any immigrant really not just chinese.

有点自知吧楼主，这是我能给你的最好建议了。你在这儿住了那么久还不会和人打交道真的是很尴尬的。不要只待在中国，真的，去别地儿怎么样？

[–]Talldarkn67[S] 12 指標 6小時前
Thank you for your advice. I will take it to heart.

感谢你的建议，我会牢记在心的。

[–]marmakoide 1 指標 58 分鐘前
“help people see the truth”
If you come with The Truth (tm) you will naturally be received with hostility. If you are from USA and a guy start to shove in your face things like public transportation in USA sucks this is the way it is I share the truth to you how you would feel about it regardless it of the truth of it ?

“帮助人民看清真相。”
如果你带着真相而来，别人自然会对你有敌意。就像你是美国人，在和人聊天的时候，那家伙一开始就糊你一脸炮轰说美国公共交通真是差劲透了，我跟你说的都是真的是事实，先不论那家伙讲的是不是真的，听他这么说你会感觉舒服？

-------------译者：z354628999-审核者：roroho------------

[–]lammatthew725Hong Kong 4 指標 7小時前*
same goes to apple
apple didnt invent nor did they popularize smart phones
blackberry and O2 did
and also apple didnt invent tablets archos did. (or ibm... if u count those early thinkpad x-series)
and mp3 players? no. not ipod. remember creative diamond rio?

苹果也是如此。苹果公司并没有发明或普及智能手机。黑莓和O2才是智能手机的开山始祖。而且苹果公司也没有发明出平板电脑，是爱可视发明出来的（或者说是IBM发明的...如果你算上他们早期的thinkpad-x系列的话）
还有mp3播放器？不，ipod才不是。还记得具有开创性的钻石里奥播放器吗？
（译注：ARCHOS——法国公司，从事研发、生产和销售一系列特色鲜明、便携精巧的移动数码产品；thinkpad——原IBM旗下笔记本电脑品牌，现为联想所有。）

[–]metalgearexMacau 2 指標 5小時前
apple is shit that stupid people buy in hoards because they don't know how to use technology. still successful though. makes sense that china would be good at innovating in this way given the amount of stupid people here.

苹果是愚蠢的人类买来囤积的狗屁玩意，因为他们都不懂怎么使用科技。不过苹果仍然成功了。考虑到那里蠢人的数目，中国以这种方法创新倒是说得过去。

[–]fungal_misdirection 1 指標 4小時前
Haha; we had a box of portable MP3 players that we got as promos from companies. Like 10 of them. None of them had the capacity of the iPod though. Also they were 90s "cyber" ugly.

哈哈。我们有一盒便携式MP3播放器，那些是一些公司的宣传产品。我们有10个这样的产品。但它们都没有iPod的容量大。此外，它们的外表是90年代的“网络式”丑陋。

[–]root-of-grass 1 指標 1小時前
We Chinese invented Fuxian Yi the 'senior scientist' of University Wisconsin.
And through him we invented a new science called "Yi's demography". Its basic theory is to make (or fake) a huge datum with whatever method you could think of.

我们中国人发明了易富贤，威斯康辛大学的“高级研究人员”。通过他的研究，我们发明了一种叫做“易的人口学”的新科学。它的基本理论是用你能想到的任何方法来制造(或伪造)一个巨大的数据。

[–]root-of-grass 1 指標 1小時前
And we Chinese also invented melamine milk and gutter oil.
In the end we would invent a new species Homo Venenosa which could survive any poisonous food and would become the only species left on this toxic planet.

同时我们中国人还发明了三聚氰胺牛奶和地沟油。最后，我们将发明一种新的物种剧毒人，这种物种可以接受任何有毒的食物，并成为这个有毒星球上唯一的物种。

Actually we are inventing a new world.

事实上，我们正在创造一个新世界。

[–]samsonlike 1 指標 7小時前
Talldarkn67.....The Chinese people are victims of credit taking. The ruling communists try to take all the credit they can get their hands on. To succeed they hide information from their subjects thereby making them misinformed and blind in essence. Therefore most present day Chinese believe their communist rulers invented many things probably including those you named.

楼主.....中国人民的利益一直被侵害。执政的人试图获得他们能得到的所有利益。为了达到目的，他们对这些目标隐藏信息，从而使他们在本质上被误导和变得盲目。因此，现今的大多数中国人认为，他们的T·G统治者发明了许多东西，可能包括刚才你们说的东西。