[美国美国] 中国是否有很多人想移民海外?这种趋势会伤害到中国的进步吗? [美国媒体]

发表于 2018-2-9 11:10:05 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
Do most Chinese people want to leave China for Western countries? How would this trend hurt China's progress?



1.Robin Daverman, World traveler(罗宾.达沃曼,quora人气答主)
Answered Jun 20, 2015
No. What you see is a very high percentage of the ultra wealthy in China want to have an "option", in the form of a foreign passport, in case the Chinese government comes down and scrutinize the way they made their money. Let's face it - a lot of people have done something illegal to become the ultra-wealthy. Remember even Rockefeller did plenty of predatory and illegal stuff in order to grow Standard Oil to such a monstrous monopoly. So it's a risk management strategy for them. That's why the Chinese government is going around the globe sewing up extradition treaties with all the other countries to repatriate their ill-gotten gain just in case.



2.Anton Low, Decipher patterns. IQ160+. Shifted 7 cities in last decade.(安顿.劳,密码破译专家,智商160以上,过去十年辗转了7个城市)
Answered Nov 27, 2015
I have spent 10 years in Canada  (many cities) and 2 years in Shanghai. China is very big and not everyone will be holding that same sentiment to be westernized. For every Chinese that wants to leave China there are a 100 or more that will stay. Reasons may differ. The poor wants to leave because in Western countries you can afford a house and car even working blue collar jobs. The rich does not really want to leave China make no mistake, they are just finding a place to park their money in Western countries.


The wealth of the rich is made in China and they definitely see no reason to flee from China, but having a safe haven outside is great for troubled times. From my personal experience, I will say that if ever given the choice to choose to hold only 1 citizenship between Chinese citizenship or American, a wealthy Chinese will always choose to hold his/her Chinese passport. I have seen that choice being made by the wealthy and the reason is because they are nobody without their Chinese citizenship, they lose all their identity and Chinese people can be very proud.


Most foreigners have more negative views on China due to mass media. Same with myself before visiting China. I will implore you to visit Shanghai and re-consider your question. The expats in Shanghai are freaking having the time of their lives. Public transport is affordable and fast, you can buy stuff on Taobao with so much ease that it puts Ebay and Amazon to shame, you can buy very fresh groceries from yihaodian and they get to you by 6pm the same day just when you reach home and they are fresher than anything that you can pick for yourself, and yes the list can go on.


If I need to return something from an online store, the delivery guy comes to my doorstep to pick it up and everything is done with zero hassle. The amount of activities in Shanghai is just plain crazy, I find myself going out so much more than anywhere else. Shanghai is now at 24 mil and it is the most populated city in the whole wide world, there are many benefits to that. I think there are more Chinese trying to move to Beijing or Shanghai (or any other tier 1 city) than to the western world, it is only if they cannot that they move to the western world. Seriously, visit Shanghai and get your heart stolen.


I still reminiscent on the day I will get to go back. No where else is quite the same as Shanghai. However, I am bilingual so maybe my experience will be different but my 'banana' friends (Chinese that only speak English) also find Shanghai to be impossible to leave. If you are rich, you are rich regardless of country anyways and the rich tend to enjoy more in China since the society can be more materialistic. Just on the record, I am no where near rich but I enjoyed my stay there.



  3.Vincent Deschenes, A largely misunderstood and mysterious country that never fails to fascinate me.(温赛特.迪切耐斯,住在一个外人觉得神秘,自己觉得平平的国家)
Answered Jan 29, 2016
This is not true.There isn't THAT many Chinese outside of China considering their massive population, for example Chinese don't leave their country more than Indians leave their country, there are in fact more Indian who migrate despite their slightly smaller population, this could also indicate that China merely has a better standard of living and also don't forget the fact that China has a very fast growing middle class and it is the biggest in the world, I am sure many Chinese find that their country is going in the right direction especially during the last couple decades given that China's economy was/is still booming. Also don't forget that more Chinese have access to better education, health system vastly improving etc this creates much better jobs than manufacturing and the improved education system also gives more people better opportunities.



4.Yuanbin Phillip Tang, Chinese who spent 10+ years in North America(元宾.菲利普.唐,一个在北美待了十年的华人)
Answered Nov 24, 2015
An anecdotal story of my own:
My family immigrated to Canada in 2000 and I spent the next 12 years of my life there. Most of my friends in Junior High in China during this period either studied abroad (US/Europe/Australia) or immigrated with their family so I always thought that most people would wish to emigrate out of China for they all have a perception that the West is "better" (which I didn't agree). Then at the end of 2012 I had an opportunity to work in the city I grew up in so I took up the offer and moved back to China. Naturally I wanted to find a girlfriend and develop a relationship that will eventually turn to marriage.


However, I was really surprised when I realized that having Canadian citizenship (meaning easy immigration for my wife) actually became a major drawback when I talk to girls about *marriage*. The majority of girls I dated/met during my time here openly expressed concerns regarding if I would leave the city once marriage happens in the first/first few dates and showed obvious reluctance when I told them "I might". I've now learned to say "Yes I plan to stay in NJ indefinitely - hey I have an apartment here already." when asked about leaving NJ/China.


Now, my own experience is limited to girls in NJ, 25-35 years old, single (most still live with family) with education ranging from community college graduates to masters (no phds yet) so take it with a grain of salt. But from what I observe, the idea of leaving their comfort zone and start anew in a strange country that speaks another language is scary to say at the least.



  5.Daniel Calto, New Yorker, Shanghainese wife, two crazy boys—Transpacific(丹尼尔.卡托,纽约人,嫁给了上海人,有两个孩子)
Answered Jan 28, 2016
No. Most Chinese people, like most people anywhere, are attached to the country and often the location where they live. Even migrant workers in China retain strong ties to their home province or village, and often have family there. There are certainly a number of people who do want to emigrate--many are among China's elite or at least prosperous class, often well-educated or at least sophisticated. Immogrants by nature are not average, they are exceptional--risk-takers or adventurers, ambitious, or at minimum willing to grapple with difficult choices and take big chances.


One reason I really hate Trump's guts is that his inflammatory rhetoric is playing to the worst and most xenophobic fear of the other. Screw him--many immigrants have built far more successful businesses than his four-times-bankrupt overleveraged gaudy and ugly real estate empire. have you ever been in Trump Tower? It looks like a place where Roman Emporers or perhaps Gianni Versace would go to eat and drink excessively, have some cheap hookup and then visit the vomitorium--and that's only the lobby. But I digress.


Even if a billion people wanted to emigrate from China, where would they go? Europe is in a meltdown over 1 million immigrants and has a population of 500M Immigration to the US is proceeding as usual. From 1900-1910, the US had more than 9 million immigrants arrive when its population was only 90M, but we survived and thrived. NYC metro now has 1M Chinese and we are doing fine. Indeed the parts of the country with the most dynamic economies also happen to be cites and states with a lot of immigrants--that is not a bug it's a feature.



6.Chara Chan, born and raised in Sichuan, China(恰拉.严,和大熊猫是老乡)
upxed Sep 8
I think this depends on a person's vision and values of life.Take my billionaire client as example.He spared no efforts to send his son from a third-tier city in Sichuan to the US, but it turned out that this kid was so obsessive with the online games that he decided to quit our class and returned to the school to have the college entrance exam. The kid's original remark was:"all I want to be is an average man. I don't want to go abroad at all!"Here's my conversation with his dad back in 2013, who used to be a financially challenged Sichuanese migrant worker working in the factories in Canton 30 years ago.

我觉得这取决于一个人的见识和他的价值观。以我的亿万富翁客户为例,他花了极大的代价,将他的儿子从中国的一个三线城市给送到了美国。但是事实证明,这个孩子对网络游戏非常痴迷。这个富翁最后绝望了,他决定让他儿子回到中国,然后让他去参加高考。这个孩子最初是这样说的:“我想成为一个普通人,我一点都不想出国。” 如下,我列出了我和他的父亲在2013年的时候的谈话。30年前的时候,这位亿万富翁还在东莞打过工。

His dad: "I didn't want to send him to the best American universities because I don't think knowledge is that important. But I want him to see the world so as to expand his vision. I learned how to climb the social ladder from Cantonese that I worked with. Had I stayed in Sichuan at that time, I would have become used to the lazy lifestyle in Sichuan and remained poor for the rest of my life. "
Me: "I can't agree with you more. Knowledge in the colleges is often of little use in the working place, but his lack of ambition has to be changed."


In my case, my colleague urged me to migrate to Canada with her in 2009 through skilled migrant application to Quebec first, who later nailed down 2 PRs from Australia and Canada by herself. At first, I went to the French class with her every evening and consulted with her agent constantly, before I became familiar with all the procedures and read all kinds of posts online about Chinese's life in Canada. But, I gave it up in the end after I had a conversation with an American scientist who graduated from Cal Tech.


He said:"I found you rather frustrated at your life recently."
I said: "What is the meaning of life?"
He said: "There are only 2 things in your life that you have to devote yourself to: family or career. My family life is a disaster but at least I have a very promising career."
I have already had a career in China, which provides me with the same salary as that of my American counterparts plus the social recognition from my clients, be they high officials or the entrepreneurs.


I'm very good at raising kids' academic performance in TOEFL and IELTS within days or weeks, which saves their time and money. Can I earn the same respect and money in Canada? I really doubt about this.So, in China, I have at least my career, despite my single life.But, in Canada, I would have no career or family but endless winter days.To sum it up, most of the Chinese still want to stay in China. When one American Chinese working for the American government mentioned the PR that he'd offer me last year, I replied:" It's not 1980s any more, a PR is not what I'm yearning for. After all, the US is not a welfare state like Australia and there's a slim chance for the Chinese to shine in the mainstream. I'd have better opportunities here in China, so just forget about it."



Answered Mar 28, 2016
Though I don't want to admit it, most Chinese I met wanted to leave China for Western world. Most of them think like this because they don't know anything about living in another country. I've got my BA and Master degrees in US with a Chinese passport, like most other Chinese students before they ever set foot in North America, my parent told me to try my best to stay in US simply because they thought US was a far more developed society than China. During my several US-China round way flights I've met many native Chinese ranging from 20-year-olds to 50-year-olds who basically don't understand anything about US and they liked to talk how much they loved it. An example is that they would blame me because I was renting an apartment off campus instead of living in an on campus housing facility.


To their view, I was "wasting" my parents' money because universities in China provide nearly free housing on campus and apartments near the universities are far more expensive because of the condensed population. In fact, I had 3 roommates and was only paying 1/5 of the school housing.Most people would think US (sometimes the whole western world) is filled with modern cities just like NYC. They would expect to buy an apartment (they didn't know they could buy a house or a condo) less than 5 miles away from downtown with several years of a "middle-class" salary.


They wouldn't consider buying a car in a city because they thought public transportation was convenient and always available simply because Chinese buses and subway trains are only minutes apart.They imagine US as a far more advanced China filled with clean NY cities. My family has a friend who is a 50 years old lady. Let's call her Y. She has 1 little brother and 2 little sisters. All of them came to US 20 years ago and lived across the country. Y stayed in China for 15 years when her immigration application was in review, and last year she was finally approved. She brought her son, who also got the citizenship, to NY and immediately started to regret her life-long decision.


Before she ever moved, Y and her son were living in a 1500 square feet apartment with hospitals, schools, grocery markets and a beach within walking distance. And now she and her 6 feet 5 inch-tall son live in an 100 square feet room with a restroom that her son can never use because his knees would be blocked against the wall before he could sit on the toilet, and they need to walk 30 minutes to Flushing's bus station to get to any other places.


She's now planning to come to Ohio and purchase a house, and probably delay her son's college for the in-state tuition.They just never make effort to study and understand another country, they took many public services as granted, they thought public schools in North America doesn't need anything to let their children in for education, and they never considered the fact that they can only get 1/10 of vegetable varieties in China. Oh, and they didn't care about the politics, until NYPD officer Liang.I'm planning to go back to China in July this year, and hopefully someday I don't need to tell my children to leave China just because there's some other country that is far more advanced.



Answered Mar 30, 2016
The riches with good education background want to leave China for western countries, especially in US. A lot of people who are poor , Poor generation 2 , what to leave too, because there is no hope in life.  Poor Generation 2 (PG2) are taught by "Knowledge can change one's destiny" and conforted "people who are rich earlier will take  care of people who are not rich and  everyone become rich  in the end"by Deng But the reality in nowadays china is another story.The riches want to go aboard for financial security or their children good education and keep their own  peace in mind. Education and Internet is a window to outside world and money is passport.


People with college education in china know outside. There are a different way  to live and to work. I think education is a window to the world, Especially English language and basic pc and mobile skills and know how to surf the internet. Home price keep people' heads looking down and control  people’s feet.There are also many people ( common people) with lower education they even dont know outside and don't give a shit to outside world and they have to care their own living , food , clothes , houses and marriage and take care of their children and grandchildren.


They don't give a shit to politics.Now higher home price make more people  rooted in china. Buying a apartment in cities means a lot to young man even to their family. Buying a apartment means a ticket to get marriage; Buy a automobile means a ticket  to marry much prettier girl with good family.  For girls or girls' mother or mother in law , they are enjoying bargaining chips  in good or pros position and can control men's life everywhere. Thanks to "One child policy " and "Boys valued more than girls " in traditional chinese culture and there are more man than women in number. There is power to promote "Wife Matters Culture "to support high home price also two children policy play same role.


People become rich and the country become richer and stronger.In the long run,   no more push or investment to develop domestic economics. The rich take away not only money , capital also human capital , great element to further economic growth and high end market and  middle -class life and hopes and dreams.



9.Jack Noone, Studied Chinese for one year at Shanghai Jiaotong University. Had a blast! (杰克.诺德,在上海交大学习汉语)
Answered Sep 7, 2016
The wealthy and those with friends in high places are vulnerable if there is a change in the political scene. They would want to move as an insurance policy in case shit hits the fan at home. As for your average Chinese person, well they are either barely aware of the outside world and therefore not all that interested (if they live in a small town or village), or, for the most part in larger cities, realise that it is very difficult to emigrate and so don’t hold out much hope of doing so. They are generally content enough living in China, where their life, friends and family live (if someone wants to emigrate, they may meet stiff opposition in the shape of Ma and Ba).



10.SYOU Totori, lives in China(陶特瑞,在中国生活)
Answered Jan 11, 2016
Interesting question. After browsing some answers here maybe we can make conclusion like "Chinese don't really want to immigrate but addicted to admire immigration life in their THOUGHTS.The mainly obstacles of immigrations among common Chinese  :
Habits especially food. Like my parents who have "dignity job" in hometown even don't like the food of other provinces of China. Once  I ask them in spite of economic problem whether choose to immgrate and they said NO.
And the most of my high school classmates (I think they are rich) who are studying abroad now always said they want back motherland after graduation. So I don't they economic problem is the root of it.


Language problems. Just like what I am doing now,answer this question in my mother language Chinese is very easy but it is difficult for me to use English. Imagining I must spend my rest of life in such difficult way,I don't have much confidence. So does my Chinese fellows.
Relationships with family and colleagues. Because of differences in concepts and language problems not everyone can get a job like get in China. And the traditional eastern family emphasize showing obedience to family especially parents. Like me,for example,I can accept foreign life and live well but my parents just have the only child (because of one child policy).
As noted before,my parents even don't want to move to other provinces of China and although they have so called dignity job in China they can't  understand foreign languages at all. That means it's nearly impossible to let them immgrate together with me so it's means it's very difficult to take care of them if I immigrate.



11.Sean Gee(辛.吉)
upxed Mar 31, 2016
As a urban white collar of 29 years old, raised and educated in China, studying abroad is one of my plans in the coming years, while emigration is not my option.
Most of my friends living and working in Western countries now are those who went there after graduation from high school or university several years ago in pursuit of a Bachelor's Degree or Master's Degree. After graduation they naturally found a job and stayed.


They all have decent, well-paid jobs. However, most of them have one thing in common about their careers. They do technology or accounting. In other words, they deal with code or numbers, communicating largely with computers rather than people. It's not like they all suddenly prefer jobs of certain specialty. They just don't have much of a choice. With high IQ and deep understanding of their majors, lack of perception of Western culture is a crucial drawback and limit the career choices.


It's not fair to criticize that they concentrated too much energy on academic fields and disregarded the importance of studying Western culture and socializing inside and outside of campus . Actually those ambitious students were social leaders back in China and certainly knew how critical it is, if you try to start a career in another country, to get familiar with its history, politics, entertainment and culture. But no matter what efforts you make, how are you supposed to take part in your colleagues' conversation about the super bowl of 2005? Isn't that too much to ask for a foreigner?


For me, I don't want to bind my career path with pure tech-oriented jobs. I like hanging out with people, making friends and expressing my ideas and innovation. These kinds of work are not that friendly to a foreigner in other countries. For me and many young people with similar educational background and outgoing personality, taking account of our careers, emigration is just not an profitable option.



12.Robert Kaya, Self-Employed (2002-present)(罗伯特.卡亚,自由职业者)
Answered Sep 5
Due to the nature of my job, I am meeting many people from different nationalities, including Chinese. I got acquainted with hundreds of them who are mostly students. The first thing they do when they arrive in Australia is to plan as to how to become a PR and subsequently obtain the citizenship. Let me give you two very recent things I experienced:
I met a very attractive and articulate young Chinese lady who arrived in Australia first time in her life. She came over here for business purpose less than two weeks ago (At the time I met her. Probably a government employee?)


I asked her how she found the country and if she would like to make a geographical change. Her answer was swift and direct, namely she said "If I could get a permit, I wouldn't hesitate". The conversation was pretty short but her answer summed up her true desire.
-I also met a 42 year old Chinese gentleman who claimed to have had his degree in Accountancy 14 (Fourteen years ago) and told me that he was planning to start with his own business. When I asked him what he was doing prior to his new venture, he admitted that he worked in a Chinese restaurant for 14 years!(Fourteen years) Despite his 'qualification', he preferred working in a restaurant rather than going back to China and practising his "Accountancy'!

我问她,她是怎么找到澳大利亚的,什么样的国家才会让她愿意改变国籍?他的回答简单而直接,她说:“如果我获得允许的话,那么我就不会迟疑。” 我们的谈话非常简短,但她的回答反映了她的真实想法。我还遇到一位42岁的中国绅士,他声称自己在14年前获得了会计学的学位。他说他打算从他的老本行开始做起。当我询问他在这份新工作之前做的工作的时候,他最后承认他在中餐馆做了14年。虽然他有资格,但是他更喜欢在中餐馆里工作,而不是回到中国去从事他的专业工作。

In a nutshell, the percentage who wants to stay in the West could be perhaps "TOO SMALL "but lets not forget that China sends millions of students to all over the world, mostly to the developed Western Countries. A small percentage of even 5% makes a significant difference given the millions are pouring out of the country each year. This is not something to be sneezed at!Please don't take my comments you lying down. The words 'racism/racist' lost their power as these words often, over and misused!


12.1Roger Jiang
Sep 6 · 1 upvote from Robert Kaya
Why would anyone call you a racist for telling what you have seen or heard? Any one’s observation, as long as it is truthful, should be appreciated. There are lots of people who want easier lives in the West (lives in China could be quite competitive - the apartments in Shanghai and Beijing are usually well over one million USD for example). There are also people who want the career opportunities that China offfers due to its rapid growth. My wife graduated from an Ivy League school in the US and about 70–80% of her Chinese classmates chose to return to China after graduation - most of them got globally competitive packages though.So I’d say it varies a lot.


12.1.1Robert Kaya
Sep 6
Some do ..Unfortunately!



  13.Kin Sing, Servant(凯恩.金)
Answered Sep 6
I think this is human nature. I also see a lot of people from Eastern Europe moving to Western Europe, Middle East to Europe. Asia to Australia to North America……. Men prefer to live in a more comfortable enjoyable place, that is their nature. But then there are people who immigrated and found they could not find jobs or the place was not what they wanted, eventually they moved back to their own country. There are so many Chinese people living abroad, you can find China towns neatly in every other countries.


Chinese people are adaptable, so eventually I believe Chinese will invade the whole world by immigration. But then there are always people that are not that selfish, they want to stay behind to try to build their own countries even if they have the opportunity to immigrate. If all the intelligent people move to other countries, their own countries will continue to be backward and not growing.



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